Anti-placebo?

[Solyst]

I know this is going to sound extremely retarded, but is it possible that if you DON'T believe in something happening your brain becomes more vulnerable to it? A sort of anti-placebo effect? I don't mean "I DON'T BELIEVE IDOSER WORKS AND IT DIDN'T", but would not believing in something cause your body to be more resistant to it, or more vulnerable?

[Ness]

Absolutely you can block out the effects of things if you don't expect them to work. The mind is VERY powerful and we notice things less than we think we do.

[Solyst]

I know you can block things out if you dont expect them to work, but would not expecting them to work CAUSE them to work well? I mean, wouldn't the brain convince itself "this isnt gonna work, I dont have to worry" and let its guard down against i-doser? Wouldn't this hypothetically cause the dose's effects to exist/be increased?

[Ness]

I guess it's POSSIBLE, but I'd think blocking the effects would be more likely.

[-Almost]

I see your point but your being too philosophical about it. Although maybe it could work. Do you believe I-Doser works?

[Solyst]

I BELIEVE I-doser works, but I cant remember any time where I actually FELT different, and the only definite effects Ive received were from lucid dream. And thats why I began wondering, if I was totally faithless in the i-doser concept, would that HELP me get the effects, or would it PREVENT the effects? We all know that if we believe in something, our brain can convince ourselves that its happening, but I want to know can your brain convince itself AGAINST something working, and becoming vulnerable to it? And if so, to what extent?

[giveaname]

yeah that could happen but if you keep trying I think it will always eventually work

[Zero]

I'd have to reply with one of my experiences. I can see and understand your point and I think I have a good example of it. When I first started i-doser, I was very skeptical of it being a placebo so I didn't expect any of it to work. Also, from what the experienced i-doser users experience are hallucinations and such, it kind of creeped me out, eve though I disbelieved that i-doser worked. So I wanted to try Downer, because my day that day was hot, tiring, and I wanted to relax. I was paranoid when I was trying it because what I read elsewhere on the forums. So in fact I wasn't paying no mind to whether the i-doser worked or not. But slowly, after being constantly worried, I got tired and I decided to lie back and actually try to relax. From then on, I started having very pleasant thoughts that normally wouldn't entail me to be happy about.

So I do believe that your mind becomes more susceptible to the doses because it disbelieves that it would work; therefore making the brain expect nothing from something when now the something would start taking over your mind.

[Couch]

that's what i kinda try to do. when you try not to expect any effects or focus on anything you feel from the dose and just think of the sound, you get better effects. i don't expect anything, even though i still know it works

[Solyst]

that's what i kinda try to do. when you try not to expect any effects or focus on anything you feel from the dose and just think of the sound, you get better effects. i don't expect anything, even though i still know it works

A few questions, do you lie down and just think about anything? Or do you surf the web/watch tv/play games/etc?

[giveaname]

ALWAYS lie down with good headphones on a bed maybe some covers for comfort and close your eyes NO DESTRACTIONS

[Solyst]

Yeah. I read the "HOW TO GET DOSES WORKING 100%" thread , but I'm asking COUCH in specific, since hes had experience with anti-placebo effect, and I wanted to know if he lets his mind wander, or does whatever, or just sits there. So I have no idea why you posted that useless comment, unless your Couch on a different account.

[Solyst]

After further research, I've noticed all the pages that refer to "anti-placebo" simple say "if you believe an effects will be worsened, they will be worsened", thats NOT anti-placebo, per se. It is STILL placebo, the person believes that something wont happen, and it doesn't happen. ANTI-placebos definition should be changed to "The total disbelief of an event or effect occurring upon usage of drugs/supplements that the brain lowers its defenses, and becomes totally suspectible and vulnerable to the actual effect."
Seriously, I can't believe that ivory-league collage students consider "YOU THINK IT NO WORK, IT NO WORK" anti-placebo, any idiot with common sense can see ITS STILL PLACEBO. Placebo's definition is the belief in something happening, that the brain actually forces it to happen. That's what "YOU THINK NO WORK, IT NO WORK" would mean.

[giveaname]

Yes how did you know I am couch on my other account??? I'd say you were smart if you were, but sadly I don't give it to children

[Solyst]

Yes how did you know I am couch on my other account??? I'd say you were smart if you were, but sadly I don't give it to children

Give what? You can't use the pronoun it in a sentence unless you have a previous noun in your statement that it refers to.